-- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com t-minus 13 hours to shutdown. washington, we have a prob problem. we are looking beyond the blame game and looking at the facts and finding out what this mess means for you, because when the clock runs out at midnight, so does much of the money, and coming up, what exactly closes and what stays open if the government does in fact shutdown. it could mean pay delays for 1.4 million u.s. troops, and families who already live paycheck to paycheck would just have to do without.

guess whose paychecks will not stop coming? you guessed it, congress and the president. hello, everyone. welcome to "legal view" i'm ashleigh banfield and it is monday september 30th. with just 13 hours the go, it looks like we are going to need more than luck to stop a government shutdown from actually taking effect. right now all eyes are on the senate which appears ready to reject a house-passed spending plan from this weekend that would again have a big effect on the obama care. it would delay it by a year. lawmakers are going the join us this hour before the senate meets at 2:00, and we could also hear from president obama later on as well. the american people are not one bit happy with any of them right now. take a look at the latest polling from cnn/orc and 69% of the people who were asked say that republicans were acting like spoiled children, and the blame didn't stop there, and 58% said that the same thing about

democrats and 40% said the same thing about the president. our dana bash has been working many long hours all weekend long, and back at it as well, and christine romans and brianna keilar are also with me. i want to start with you, dana bash, and nobody is secucurryin about with secret meetings, and that seems worrisomworrisome. should it be? >> well, even the not so secret or secret meetings won't solve the problem, and it is a true stalemate. the senate is not in and they won't get in until 2:00 p.m., and why is that? the reason is because senate democratic leaders have decided to effectively run out the clock. they got the new bill funding the government from the house after midnight on saturday night or sunday morning, and they decided not to come in yesterday, and not to come in this morning, and they insist that when they come in this afternoon, they are going to pretty briskly be able to reject

what the house sent them which is a bill funding the government, and also delaying obama care for a year, and repealing a tax on medical devices to pay for i. not heard from a man of the hour, and that is house speaker john boehner, but we did hear from him this morning though, and this is what he said. >> the senate decided not the work yesterday. well, my goodness, if if there is such an emergency, where are they? it is time for the senate to listen to the american people, and just like the house has listened to the american people, and then pass a one-year delay of obama care, and a permanent repeal of the medical device tax. >> and now the actually the reason i called him the man of t the hour is because it is up to him, and his fellow republican leaders to decide what to do after the senate rejects their latest bid. will they go ahead and pass another spending bill with another slice of changing obama ca care.

for example, doing away with the so-called death panels or ascending back something to d a delay the individual mandate from the law for a year, and any kind of combination of that, or will he say that the clock is ticking and the deadline is coming, and you know what, fellow republicans, i will have to take this up, this clean bill and pass it with the ma jjorityf the house democrats which he could do at any time, but face the wrath politically from conservatives. >> dana, at this point, it sounds like it is a whole new creation that you are talking about, not just sort of revising and cutting down what is already on the table. so we will have to keep an eye closely on that. dana bash, thank you for that. the president has already made it pretty clear, he is not going to sign something that delays the health care law. that is one of the things that he says he won't blink at. brianna keilar is live at the white house right now, and so what is the administration saying today? is it all quiet on that front, and there are international affairs that the president has to be involved with today and let this all hang? >> oh, it is not terribly noisy

here today, and i will tell you that. however, there are a couple of instances today, ashleigh, i don't believe it is going to stay kquiet. a couple of times today, where we may hear president obama speak, and he has a meeting with the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu, and yes, iran is a big issue, and foreign policy is a big issue, and we will see when they meet at noon or so when the cameras are in there if the president perhaps will take a question on the shutdown. it is also more likely that come, and it is 4:45 p.m. eastern tile, he is having a cabinet meeting, and the whole purpose of the cabinet meeting really is to meet with the heads of his different departments while on the verge of a government shutdown. so i think that we would expect to obviously hear something then, and that is although certainly not official, but the argument coming from the white house here, ashleigh, is that they don't believe that the house proposal is serious. they are saying, look, it is an extension of the government funding for what, 2 1/2 more

months in exchange for a one-year delay in obama care, and that is not serious. as you said, president obama does not want to negotiate on anything that defunds or delays obama care. >> keep your ears out, and let us know if you hear anything with this meeting of the president and prime minister netanyahu. and that is brianna keilar at the screen. i want to talk about the screen, because there is a number of things ticking away. on the right-hand side is the countdown clock, and on the left is the dow. that is dismal and only opened for a little bit, but you know, the day is yet early. so, it is looking pretty likely that midnight is going to be the bewitching hour at this point, and that mean s ths that tomorr morning places like the air and space museum which, hello, that is nice live shot for you in washington, d.c., could be a place that you can't visit. shutdown, closed, and it is not the only place. in fact, christine romans joins me live to talk more.

i was in washington, d.c., ms. romans, and i felt like the most useless person on the street. >> go back to fix it. >> and so i went to the american history museum and i said, well, i might be one of the last ones through the door, and that is really true. >> there is a old saying that if it is free, it is going to close. if it is free at the national parks and anything that is free, those things will close, and close quickly. i am told if you have a camper on park service land right now, you have a couple of days to pull up the stakes. but here is what will close, national parks, zoos, museums, statue of liberty and everything like that, so if you are planning a trip, prepare yourse yourself. many federal offices and programs and 750 to 825,000 people will be sent home, those nonessential workers will be sent home, and take them three or four hours tomorrow to power down what they are working on and get out of town. what remains open? federal courts have enough

funding to stay open for ten day da days. the passport offices are open, unless they are in a federal building which will be closed, but the passport offices can be in the post offices which will stay open, and the border protection, and the power grid maintenance, and so most of you were asking me about the social security check or food stamps or medicare. all of those things are considered mandatory spending, ashleigh. all of those thing, and the jobless benefits, and the post office snap of the food stamps, but bad news, you have to pay the taxes, ashleigh, and congress will be paid. you have to pay the taxes, and congress will be paid even though congress will not have done its job. the job is to keep the government running. >> and you walked by my office this morning and you told me the number of days that congress has actually not been on the floor. >> yes, they are in session l e later to like 126 days, and now they go home to raise a lot of money, and thing likes that, but

the job is to run the government, and shutdown by definition means that the congress has not done their job, and they will be paid, because they are essential, and the president as well. >> and the president and we are talking about a couple of hundred k, and it is not chump change. and you are watching the markets this morning, too? >> yes. >> eke. and the dow is down little over 99 and we were off 140 or so. >> off the worst levels and so it is good that it is not down 200. >> i can't even remember what the worst point was this morning? 130 or 140? >> yes. >> and there you go. we did have a good september though. we had a e really good september, but the shutdown is causing significant stress for everybody. republicans in the house of representatives are splitting the party, and causing some big headaches for the leadership. why are they doing it? and can they stop a shutdown? you will hear from two republicans who are in the thick of this standoff when we come back. ♪ norfolk southern what's your function? ♪

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disappointment, a huge disappointment. >> and there are going to be plenty of upset tourists throughout the country if the government does in fact shutdown. those people are not the only ones upset about the looming government shutdown. all national parks would close if that happens and that is a disappointment to the thousands of people visiting the parks, or in the coming days. kids do it all year around, and plan big events around this. and americans are upset with those on capitol hill for pushing this country to that. if you want examples of that, here is john king with the latest poll numbers. >> first and foremost, no question that the american people think that it is a bad idea to have the shutdown clock run to zero. 7 in 10 americans and 68% say it is a bad thing to shut the government down for a few days, and what about the prospect of a shutdown that ran on longer for a few weeks and hard to get 8 in 10 americans to agree on any political question, but they

agree on this. to shut down more than eight days. and you remember the old adage that all politics are local, and 4 of 5 of the most conservative senators are pushing this strategy for the republican party. they believe they are in on safe ground back home, and 50% of the tea party supporters believe it is a good thing to shutdown the government, and that is why some of the conservatives are not afraid to go to brink, but however, if you come back to the national numbers, if this happens who do the american people think are most responsible, and 36% say the president, but nearly half say the republicans would be responsible and 13% say both. so the president is safe at the moment on the ground of responsibility, and this is interesting how you vote of what you think of the brinkmanship, and if you are a democrat, you overwhelmingly blame the republican, and if you are a republican, you overwhelmingly blame the president. and the voters are equally

divide on this question, so that tells you that the president has a sales case to make to the middle of the electorate, and some republicans say we are on safe ground here, because the american people don't like the president's health care law, and it is true. our new poll shows 57%, and nearly 6 in 10 americans oppose obama care, but it is a critical distinction, and break that number down. 11% of those who opposed to president's health care law opposed it, because they felt it did not go far enough, because they wanted a single-payer system or government involvement and that is a critical point as the american people oppose this law, and some of them oppose it not for the reason that republicans cite, but what is the reason for the fundamental debate as the clock ticks down? what is most important for the government the shutdown or vote down part of the health care law, and 6 in 10 say it is more important to avoid the government shutdown, and that number speaks for itself. >> thank you, john. i have another number that might tickle your fancy, because so many people are so frustrated

with what is happen iing. in fact, the words spoiled children come to mind. acting like spoiled children in the budget debate. republicans, 69%. democrats, 58%. the president, 47%. whenever you hear about the spoiled children, you don't want to be in any of those percents. and yet, my next two guests are going to have to deal with what americans are saying. representative dana rohrbacker, and joining as well, you cannot be comfortable with what john king just laid out and what i laid out with the spoiled children factor, and how do you weather this, and i will begin with you, congresswoman blackburn. >> well, what we look at is that the american people have repeatedly said that they want

things to be under control and run by an orderly process in washington, d.c. we completely agree with that. that is why we have repeatedly sent options, and possibilities to the senate. i will tell you that i think that the house is as dis disappointed as the american people that the senate decided they were going to take off and have a weekend to go to ball games and play golf and things of that nature. we have been here working. we wish they were back in town now. and we were addressing this. we agree with the american people. don't shut the government down. we don't want to. we want to keep it open and keep the working to fix some of the programs that have very obvious substantiated problems and glitches like obama care. >> it sounds so simple when you say it like that, and it reminds me of the time in the middle east when the palestinians and the israelis say that you want

peace, but you both want your way and neither wants to blink in the ridiculous staring contest where we are the ones who need the visine, so congressmcongress m congressman rohrback er, and forethose in the audience who mate hate the technical speak, why defund the environment government and the u.s. economy and bring it to this brink and why not all of the other times and the other 100-plus congresses have been able to fund the government. >> well, have you addressed that to the senate? we have offered a compromise. you are acting and telling the listeners that we republicans are holding this up, and the government is going to shutdown. we have actually reached out to the democrats with a compromised position. we passed it. >> and they say don't you dare put this back on me, and you know full well that you have attached obama care and defending it and you can't make something up. >> and i know that it is the guest on the news show or give

us a tirade. let me finish my sentence. >> you passed a bill back to the senate and to defund obama care. >> and your listeners need to understand that this is the same thing we are putting up with the senate. we are for a compromise and they won't talk to us about it, and you won't talk to us about it, and whose bidding are you doing? we have offered the compromise and we don't like obama care and they like it. we have reached out halfway to them, and put on the table a proposal, passed a resolution to keep the government going. they have opposed the resolution to keep the government going, and now say that there is no negotiations, and we get it all and you get nothing. and you are blaming us for the shutdown of the government? >> and if you want to know whose bidding i am doing, check out the twitter account where i invited two republicans on and not a democrat, and just clear the air right there. >> and you were cutting me off. >> and you said that they were doing this, and it is important that you can in a moment, congresswoman, but it is

important for people to understand what is at stake here, and there is a continuing resolution which is the funding bill for the next two months to keep the government going. and the republicans chose under a lot of pressure and ted cruz for one in the senate to create that pressure to attach defunding obama care which is the law of the land, and why would you attach it, when you knew that it would create the problem, and go ahead, marsha blackburn? >> well, we need ted to compromise. >> and i would hope that the listeners and the watchers all realize that the number one, the house passes a budget every year. we have had a problem with the senate not passing a budget, and that is why we continue the work on the continuing resolution. this year, they did pass a budget, but then they said, okay, house, we are not going the negotiate with you, unless you agree to a tax increase. we weren't going to do that. we want to do tax reform. so thereby we get into the process of the continuing resolution. now the big es part of growth in

the budget is health care cost. the american people by overwhelming numbers do not like what is happening with the obama care. so the first continuing resolution that we sent had a bill that is carried by tom graves in the house, and that was a defunding bill. the senate rejected that. so we went back into the session, and our compromised position that we sent back to them carried a bill that by the way, the amendment passed with bipartisan support, and that is the amendment to simply delay obama care for a year. the president has already given 1,200 waivers, and he has had 19 delays, and they have missed 47 regulatory deadlines on this o program. it is not ready. so we have sent that to the senate, and what we are hearing back is, well, they didn't stay here saturday and they didn't

show up sunday, and so they will come back today. so we have offered them a compromi compromise. >> i hear you. we are 12:38 on the countdown clock. >> correct. >> which is ticking away right underneath congress roh rbacher's tie. and so this is going to cost billions in mucky muck logistics and so you are both paid $174,000 a year, and that is the salary, and would you be prepared to add some rider or amendment on to a continuing resolution that would take you out of the essential services category and stop payment on your paychecks in order to get a continuing resolution through, and yes or no? >> we are waiting to see -- we are waiting to see what they offer. >> to stop your paychecks? >> we are waiting to see what they send back, and i hope that as you were running the countdown clock that you are

running the debt clock. i have two grandsons, and their share of the national debt is now over $53,000 each. >> sorry. i asked a specific question, and i wanted a yes or no question. there are a lot of the government workers going to stop receiving their paychecks, and a there are a lot of the military service members who are serving overseas who might be stopped being paid and veterans whose benefits, and -- >> would you -- let me answer your question specific -- >> and they are losing the paychecks as well. >> let me answer that. members of congress should not be treated any differently than any other federal employee. >> is that a yes? >> whatever happens to the federal employee should happen to us when it comes to what we get in benefits and whether it is retirement or health care and whatever happens to the average federal employee should happen to us, and that rule should not be changed. the bottom line is that we have reached out now to the senate, and when you have that numbers underneath my tie, that should be under harry reid's picture and not mine.

i have done my job. >> 2:00 is coming soon. >> and we are working. we are working. we are in session, and they are not. >> and you are not the only two on the hot seat, but you are both great to come on with me today, and please fix this mess for the rest of us. we really like to pay you the big salaries, but we'd like for you to do more and do more negotiating and figure it out. you are like intransigent kids. >> no, we are not. the house has been working, and we wish that the senate would. >> and thank you so much, both of you. i want to bring in our senior congressional correspondent dana bash and i mentioned it 113 different congresses have convened in the country, and we don't carom from issue to issue. >> and we have a house that was elected in the majority of 2010

to fight these fights, and say that we won't go ahead to do the business as usual. that is why so many republicans, and conservatives challenged the fe fellow republicans sitting in congress, because they oorg youed that they were agreeing to spend so much. that is sort of the origin or the genesis of where we are. i think that what will be interesting to see going forward and everybody wants to know how this movie ends is whether or not republicans, including the two that you had on will be willing to accept a clean bill, meaning a spending bill just like the democrats want without anything attach ed to it about obama care or anything else, and agree to do that with the democratic support. that support is there. the question is whether or not john boehner and fellow republican leaders can do that, and risk getting a lot of pushback from within their own party. >> dana bash, live for us on capitol hill, and thank you for that. happening right now at the white house, president obama is

welcoming israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu and they have a lot the talk about from peace talks with palestinian leaders and the agreements earlier in the week. and this home for servicemen and women could soon be a cold shoulder if the government shutdowns. how the military will be affected is coming up in a moment. i'm a careful investor.

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check out the other top stories that we are following. president obama is meeting with prime minister of israel benjamin netanyahu, and this is coming after president obama spoke with the new iranian president hassan rouhani. they are expected to talk about the civil war and negotiations between israel and the palestinians. that possible thaw between the u.s. and iran may in fact include resuming direct flights between the two countries, if you can believe it. the associated press is

reporting that iranian president rouhani is asking the aviation officials to study the possibility. the direct flights were stopped after iran's 1979 islamic revoluti revolution, and they have not been on the table since. this may come as a surprise to the rest of the world, but syrian prime minister says that there is no civil war in his country. let that digest. he spoke this morning at the u.n. general assembly, and the assertion comes despite the fact that the rebels are fighting to overthrow bashar al assad for more than two years, and it is reported that over 200,000 syrians have been killed in the fighting, however you label the fighting. and just over 12 and a half hours from the possible government shutdown and the military families are concerned. >> there is going to be bills that are going to be due, and those places, you can't tell the

electric department, hey, i got an iou. >> paychecks could be delayed and that is not all. and wait until you hear about benefits and disability payments for america's bravest. (music plays throughout)

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you know the way it is supposed to work, right? is you go the war and come back a hero, or at the very least you come back and you continue to get paid, right? at the very least? how about those who are still at war? you figure that we would continue to pay them, right, too? well, look at the countdown clock, because that is real for those people i just mentioned. here is barbara starr. >> for america's 1.4 million troops and the families the shutdown means just one thing, paychecks could be delayed if a shutdown goes on for several days and that means doing

without because of washington. vivian greentree's husband is overseas while she works and looks after two young children. >> we have spent a large amount of the time this morning speaking about what we would do if he doesn't get paid and how to react to that with our own finances, and i know it is a conversation that has been had through e-mail, texting and facetime, skype for military families all over the country. >> reporter: many live paycheck to paycheck. at fort campbell, kentucky, continuing worry. >> the bills are due, and you can't tell the electric department, hey, i got an iou. >> reporter: washington knows that the troops are unhappy and so the republican-controlled house passed a measure to keep paying the troops in the shutdown, but the senate has yet to act. and for america's veterans, the outlook is more dire because of the other crisis, raising the debt ceiling before the government runs out of money. >> if it goes longer than a few

weeks and congress can't get the act together, this will hurt millions of veterans who care on this money for their care and service. >> reporter: millions of americans receive disability payments and if there is a delay, current payments will not arrive or delayed. >> there is a part of this that if you take it out of the mix because the government can't get their act together is really dangerous for the men and women who need it the most. >> reporter: barbara starr, pentagon. >> if you are starting to feel the outrage like the bile in the back of the throat, we are joined by an iraq war veteran and also the head of the veterans administration, and tom, why aren't the people considered essential as the legislators doing this and the

president who get to keep their checks, and also that a law passed back in in 2009 that is supposed to protect their pay is to do that? >> well, if you are in the military, you should be paid and i hope that the senate did act. and the benefits did go out today, and if the benefits are longer than 15th, while the military will accrue pay, they won't get their check. and today, the checks went out for disability and pensions burk the v.a. announced that if the shutdown is more than three weeks, they don't have enough cash on hand to pay the benefits, so this is a huge problem. you are absolutely right, while the health care system in the have v.a. is connected to the law, we are talking about benefits next month delayed and the processing of new benefits could slow down this month which is making a terrible problem with the disability backlog worse. >> and what about those serving right now overseas and worried

about their husbands or wife back home and the babies and how to put food on the table, and they work check to check a lot of the people. do they get ious or what do they get issued? >> well, they don't get issued anything. if the shutdown goes longer than the 15th they won't be paid and once the government turns back on so to speak, they will be receiving backpay for that time. i was in the military for ten years and i was living paycheck to paycheck and missing a pay period is a problem. and also things on post like the day-care and the groceries, and it is bigger than paycheck, but the services that the men and women count on as part of the d daily lives as compensation and benefits are si veerly impacted, and the fact that this is happening because congress can't do their job is really a shame. these are men and women who do their job whether they are going to be paid or not, and military members and their families

complete their mission, and it would be nice to have congress do the same. >> well, it was very difficult to get an answer from the two congresspeople who joined me at the top of the hour saying that they should forego their checks. ultimately they said they would, but it was hard to get that answ answer. thank you, tom carrington. no matter what happens tonight, businesses are to remain open at midnight, and still many questions about the affordable health care act, the obama care, and businesses moving the employees from full-time to part-time. we want to fact check this for you, because there are lots of facts and myths out there. [ male announcer ] this is brad. his day of coaching begins with knee pain, when... [ man ] hey, brad, want to trade the all-day relief of two aleve for six tylenol? what's the catch? there's no catch. you want me to give up my two aleve for six tylenol? no. for my knee pain, nothing beats my aleve. no.

if yand you're talking toevere rheuyour rheumatologistike me, about trying or adding a biologic. this is humira, adalimumab. this is humira working to help relieve my pain. this is humira helping me through the twists and turns. this is humira helping to protect my joints from further damage. doctors have been prescribing humira for over ten years. humira works by targeting and helping to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to ra symptoms. for many adults, humira is proven to help relieve pain and stop further joint damage. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal events, such as infections, lymphoma, or other types of cancer, have happened. blood, liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure have occurred. before starting humira , your doctor should test you for tb. ask your doctor if you live in or have been to a region where certain fungal infections are common. tell your doctor if you have had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have symptoms such as fever,

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we are giving you the facts

on obama care, and the president's controversial health care reform law, and better known perhaps a as the affordable care act on capitol hill, and this is at the heart of the budget battle right now. the house passed a spending plan to undercut obama care and it faces almost certain failure in the senate. 2:00 is the vote. let's bring in tom foreman who is breaking down the factts and the myths of obama care so you can figure out where you stand. tom, i'm so glad that you are here, because when there is a live guest on the air, i come armed with the claims they make, and how they can be debunct, because they can be. >> and they can. and start with the big one. when president obama was trying to pass health care reform, he said explicitly, you can keep your own doctor. l let's listen to him talking about that for a moment. >> first of all, if you have health insurance, and you like your doctor and you like your plan, you can keep your doctor, and you can keep your plan. nobody is talking about taking that away from you. >> well, now the department of

health and human services says that depending upon the plan that you choose in the marketplace, you may be able to keep your current doctor, and why saying that? and the waffling? because the companies are trying to make sure they are not stuck with some unimaginable cost which means that you may change plans and the doctor may change plans, so most of us will keep our doctors, but the president was so far too definitive there, and you will be able to keep your doctor? no. you might be able to keep your doctor. ashleigh? >> okay. that is number one a. big claim out there that the employers are manipulating the hours because of the rules and how many hours your employees work and whether you have to pay for their health care, and what is the reality check on that? >> yeah, well, in a sentence, that is the claim. they are saying that the businesses are moving the people into part-time jobs to avoid obama care. listen to what senator ted cruz

said about that. >> among small businesses that will be impacted by the employer mandate. one half of small businesses say that they will either cut hours to reduce full time employees, or replace full time employees with the part-time workers to avoid the mandate. >> so, obama care requires businesses that have at least 50 full-time employees to provide insurance, and one example of the company ducking is u.p.s., and the problem is that u.p.s. says it is not true. they are not doing that at all, and they are not cutting back people's hours to stri to gtry under the threshold, but there is not a clarity, because the bureau of labor statistics says that full time employment has decline and part-time has risen, and they don't know why. so the republicans can't statistically prove it is a result of the obama care,

democrats can't disprove it either, ashleigh, so it is one of the things that they both lay claim to the proof, but the proof is squishy. >> so, listen, this is a 10,000-page bill, and i don't know if you have 17 1/2 more day days to stay on the air and do this on a regular basis, but if you did, tom foreman, i would so appreciate it. can you give me a couple more quick ones if you have them. >> yes, the white house claims 6 in 10 people will pay less than $100 a month in premiums and that is mathematically true, but the administration is not saying that lower premiums mean higher cost out of your pocket if you go to the doctor. so if you are sick, those savings could be costly. and republicans are claiming that the individual mandate to buy insurance should be delayed like the businessman to provide it and they can make this argument, but in terms of money, this is apples, and oranges. the mandates of the businesses

you are talking about is a small slice of this. the individual mandate is the bulk of the whole plan. they are saying in effect that the business, you can run the car without the air conditioner, but if you try to do it with the individual, it is like trying to run the car without the engine. it is a big difference. >> thank you, tom foreman, for the fact checking, because it is critical at this point. and also our own sanjay gupta is going to hit the road on the cnn express to cover the country to see how the obama care sign-up works and how the problems crop up. and the enrollment season you roll your eyes when the company says it is time that time of the year to do your paperwork, and now we will make sure you understand what is going on with your health care. so in is the never-ending sa saga. amanda knox, a court reconvenes in italy and she is once again being tried in the death of her roommate, but there time, knox is a no-show. she loves a lot of the same things you do.

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saying that the jury didn't consider all of the evidence. a number of kenya's cabinet members and defense officials were warned about the possibility that the terror group al shabaab was planning an attack on the mall in nairobi. the warnings came a year before this month's deadly attack, according to a police and intelligence set of sources. we also have learned that the attackers tortured some of the hostages. military doctors say that the militants severed hands, cut off knows noses and in some cases hanged those hostages. this is not the first time we have come close to a shutdown. as a matter of fact, nearly 20 years ago, the government did close down. in fact, it did. quick reminder of what happened then and whether it's a harbinger of what's about to happen next. wolf blitzer is coming up. [ nurse ] i'm a hospice nurse. britta olsen is my patient. i spend long hours with her checking her heart rate, administering her medication, and just making her comfortable. one night britta told me about a tradition in denmark,

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welcome back. little known fact, 17 years ago, i arrived in this country, one of those huddled masses emigrating. two things happened, o.j. simpson was acquitted right away and then the government shut down. i thought that happens here? it turns out it does. it's happened before and it could happen again. wolf blitzer joins me now to talk about this. wolf, didn't we learn pretty good lessons the last time from

1995? when i say we, those who is took it on the chin were the republicans who ended up being swept off the hill in very large numbers. is that something they're worried about this time around. >> i'm sure they're worried about the potential fallout. i was cnn's white house correspondent at the time. i remember the two government shutdowns very brief, only a few days in '95 and a couple weeks in '96. so what happened the fallout was going into those two government shutdowns, president bill clinton was behind bob dole potentially, his republican challenger in all sorts of polls. but as a result of the two shutdowns, he went over bob dole, the republican presidential nominee and clinton went on to get re-elected. the republicans suffered in that election in 1996. as far as controlling the house of representatives, newt gingrich still managed to hold on 0 to his majority but they lost seats, but they still went on to hold it the majority, a

smaller majority. it hurt newt gingrich eventually with his own republican base and as we all know a few years later, he gave up his house seat and was no longer the speaker. those were some of the lessons a lot of people are learning from the earlier experience. you have a lot of lawmakers in congress who didn't live through that will experience of '95, '96, and they hate obama care so much, they're willing to let the chips fall where they may even though some top republican political strategists like karl rove writing a few days ago in "the wall street journal" says this could be a political safety for the republicans if they link these two issues. >> dana bash is just reporting she's running to some staffers who are essential hog are headed to deliver furlough notices. it's already in motion it appears. is there anything at this point, is there anything, anything 12 hours and three minutes that could stop all this from happening? >> having lived through so many

of these minute by minute crunching experiences in washington, the answer is yes, something could happen at the last minute. let's say the senate sends back a clean resolution as they say keeping the government funded for a little bit longer, a few months or whatever, even a few weeks or maybe even a week. then maybe negotiations, the senate, the house will do something to allow it to go forward. my instinct says there probably will be some sort of government partial shutdown after midnight. how long it lasts is anyone's guess. there's always hope. let's see. >> like a snowball's chance in the devil's den. having emigrated from canada, i know the temperatures. wolf, i know you have a long day ahead of you. thanks so much for watching. our coverage of this possible government shutdown continues. wolf will have our coverage later on in news room" and on the situation room". right now, suzanne malveaux and michael holmes will take it from here. here. thanks for being with us.

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